{"id":1258,"date":"2013-09-27T08:00:13","date_gmt":"2013-09-27T12:00:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/?p=1258"},"modified":"2018-05-07T06:39:33","modified_gmt":"2018-05-07T10:39:33","slug":"40k-1500pts-versus-chaos-marines","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/2013\/09\/40k-1500pts-versus-chaos-marines\/","title":{"rendered":"40k: 1500pts Versus Chaos Marines"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-42\" alt=\"kingbreakers-icon\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/07\/kingbreakers-icon.png\" width=\"81\" height=\"81\" \/>Last night I made it out for Thursday 40k at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.redcapscorner.com\/\">Redcap&#8217;s<\/a>. \u00a0One thing that blew me away immediately was the ~12 people there for 40k (and a little Warmachine)! \u00a0Quite a change from years past. \u00a0It was particularly awesome to have a solid <a href=\"http:\/\/pagegaming.com\/forums\/\">PAGE<\/a> crew on hand: Lovell, Tom, Buford, James, and myself were all battling it out.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1262\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6310.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1262\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1262 \" alt=\"Alternate Thunderfire Cannon in an Imperial Fists army.\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6310-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6310-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6310-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6310.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1262\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Pretty cool third-party Thunderfire Cannon model in somebody&#8217;s Imperial Fists army.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Tom and I got in a 1500pt round of Chaos versus Kingbreakers, basically a refresher game. \u00a0I haven&#8217;t played since January, and that three game tournament made up my entire play experience with 6th edition before tonight!<\/p>\n<h2>Army<\/h2>\n<p>For the most part my list was constrained to be entirely fully painted, WYSIWYG models. \u00a0Well, caveat a base-painted Techmarine, but his Thunderfire Cannon is painted! \u00a0Pretty standard Kingbreakers, slightly less Drop-Poddy than usual:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><em>Capt Angholan<\/em>&#8212;Vulkan<\/li>\n<li><em>Librarian Rorschach<\/em>&#8212;Librarian w\/ Terminator Armor, Storm Shield<\/li>\n<li>Sternguard x5 w\/ Drop Pod, 3x Combi-Meltas<\/li>\n<li>Tacticals x5 w\/ Razorback, Powerfist<\/li>\n<li>Tacticals x10 w\/ Rhino, Missile Laucher, Meltagun<\/li>\n<li>Tacticals x10 w\/ Missile Launcher, Flamer<\/li>\n<li>Devastators x7 w\/ 2x Plasmacannons, 2x Heavy Bolters<\/li>\n<li>Thunderfire Cannon<\/li>\n<li>Landspeeders x3<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Tom had Chaos Marines with Daemons friends, something like a Chaos Marine Demon Prince, Daemon Prince, Lord + Berzerkers w\/ Rhino, Chaos Space Marines, Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds, Obliterators, Maulerfiend, Soul Grinder.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1259\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6335.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1259\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1259\" alt=\"Tom blowin' things up!\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6335-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6335-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6335-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6335.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1259\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tom blowin&#8217; things up!<\/p><\/div>\n<h2>Battle<\/h2>\n<p>Deployment came up Vanguard or whatever the cross-corners setup is called these days. \u00a0The mission was Big Guns Never Tire. \u00a0This was actually important because we both had Heavy Support units that wound up mattering due to the mission rule counting them for scoring.<\/p>\n<p>We basically implicitly conspired to stack up three of the four objectives in my corner. \u00a0This was a mistake on my part, especially on this deployment style. \u00a0It&#8217;s not so awesome essentially sitting there on three objectives, staring at a slavering horde of Khorne&#8217;s faithful looking at you hungrily.<\/p>\n<p>Tom Infiltrated and Scouted his Hounds basically right in my face, ready for a Turn 1 assault on my corner objective. \u00a0I knew I should just ignore the beasts. \u00a0But I was worried about that whole Tactical Squad getting swept right away. \u00a0I was also thinking about trying to use my Sternguard less aggressively, keeping them alive for longer. \u00a0So I dropped my Pod on the Hounds, hoping to shoot them away quickly and then turn around to Combi-Melta the Soul Grinder next turn as it advanced out of the rear terrain toward my line. \u00a0The hounds though did not die. Half my army wound up shooting at them and still one remained on the board. \u00a0After my Sternguard got pummeled by heavy shooting that one hound turned out to be one of Khorne&#8217;s favorite pets or something, because he tied up my Librarian and a Sternguard for ~4 turns in a piss-poor display of Space Marine close combat skills.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1264\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6299.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1264\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1264\" alt=\"The line awaits.\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6299-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6299-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6299-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6299.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1264\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The line awaits.<\/p><\/div>\n<div id=\"attachment_1263\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6305.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1263\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1263\" alt=\"HRUH?!\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6305-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6305-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6305-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6305.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1263\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">HRUH?!<\/p><\/div>\n<p>After that the Chaos guys basically came at my guys while my guys tried to blast away at them. \u00a0Landspeeders went after the mobile troops, including a nice combo-attack popping the Rhino and frying the guys inside. \u00a0The Thunderfire dumped some shots into the troops hidden way back on the Chaos corner objective, and some into the oncoming horde. \u00a0Eventually the troops got mangled pretty well, but the big guys can soak up a ton of damage and proceeded to do so while my guys all braced for impact. \u00a0Vulkan leapt out of his quickly retreating command Razorback to shield a Tactical Squad bravely standing their ground and wound up in mortal combat with the traitor Daemon Prince. \u00a0Kingbreakers everywhere looked for their usual Drop Pod reinforcements but today it was not to be.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1265\" style=\"width: 235px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6292-e1380280602917.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1265\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1265\" alt=\"Hold the line!\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6292-e1380280602917-225x300.jpg\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6292-e1380280602917-225x300.jpg 225w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6292-e1380280602917-768x1024.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6292-e1380280602917.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1265\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hold the line!<\/p><\/div>\n<h2>Outcome<\/h2>\n<p>For a while it looked like it was going to be a close one, with Tom all over my guys but not able to claim enough objectives. \u00a0In the end though he locked it up pretty well, able to keep fragments of squads on two objectives while contesting another to leave me with just one. \u00a0He also managed to sweep the bonus points, popping a Landspeeder before I could wipe out the Hounds, eventually killing Vulkan, and being in my deployment zone. \u00a0CHAOS!<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1260\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6331.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1260\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1260\" alt=\"And the beast strode amongst them as though a god!\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6331-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6331-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6331-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6331.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1260\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">And the beast strode amongst them as though a god!<\/p><\/div>\n<h2>Analysis<\/h2>\n<p>Both of us were kind of rusty but I think played fairly correctly and not terribly terribly slowly. \u00a0I forgot my characters all got a Mastercrafted upgrade, Tom incorrectly thought his Prince was forced to Challenge, and I think we rolled a couple vehicle assaults incorrectly, but otherwise clean.<\/p>\n<p>In general I think I failed to utilize what mobility I had, and should have brought more. \u00a0I let myself got boxed in to close quarters, something I&#8217;m usually trying to do to others, and even though I didn&#8217;t actually lose a ton of guys, they couldn&#8217;t do much either. \u00a0NEEDS MOAH DROP PODS!<\/p>\n<h2>Thoughts<\/h2>\n<p>Following\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/2013\/09\/40k-6e-space-marines-librarians\/\">discussion<\/a>\u00a0from last week, my Librarian of course rolled a stupid power on the Telekinesis chart and I opted for the base power (Assail, a beam attack). \u00a0Though I keep repeating myself on this I&#8217;ll say it again: These random powers are just annoying and unfortunate.<\/p>\n<p>Afterward Tom and I were talking about why I roll Vulkan, even without excessive amounts of Melta. \u00a0Basically, even without taking serious advantage of his buffs, I think he&#8217;s still <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/2013\/09\/40k-6th-edition-space-marines-vulkan\/\">a pretty good bargan<\/a>. \u00a0Not that many Marines can stand up at all to an angry Daemon Prince, and Vulkan&#8217;s one of them. \u00a0His 3++ is huge and the Relic Blade + Mastercrafted + Digital Weapons is just enough to get in a couple good shots on a big guy. \u00a0In addition to committing you to other Chapter Tactics, the other Marine heavies like Lysander and Marneus are more points and somewhat less flexible: Lysander can&#8217;t Sweeping Advance, they can&#8217;t get into Rhinos, etc..<\/p>\n<p>With the\u00a0Landspeeders I&#8217;m always torn about whether to fly them individually or as a squad. \u00a0Generally I do the latter to not give away kills so easily. \u00a0In this case I ran them separately, which made it tougher for Tom&#8217;s small army since he had to spread shots and assaults across them.<\/p>\n<p>In the previous edition the Thunderfire Cannon was obviously asking for Barrage and\/or Large Blast to be really useful. \u00a0So obviously that I don&#8217;t know what the hell GW&#8217;s designers were thinking debuting it without them. \u00a0Direct fire only for a fragile artillery piece made it a questionable selection. \u00a0This edition it got Barrage, which makes it much more appealing and fills a hole in the Marine codex&#8212;there&#8217;s never been much\/any indirect fire in there. \u00a0Against an elite-ish Power Armour army like CSM the Cannon&#8217;s not super amazing, there&#8217;s too few guys to reap a ton of hits, but I was ok with its performance. \u00a0Faced with weaker, more numerous infantry it&#8217;d be a reasonable purchase for clearing backfield objectives. \u00a0Large Blast would still be nice, and not obviously overpowered&#8212;with the full 2D6 scatter you couldn&#8217;t easily drop shots anywhere near your own guys&#8212;but overall it&#8217;s useful. \u00a0It&#8217;s more or less competing for army points though against the Hunter\/Stalker, and the latter probably gets the nod for combatting flyers.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, the more I see them, the more Challenges come up a bit short rules-wise. \u00a0I&#8217;d be totally down for HQs being able to challenge other HQs or something like that. \u00a0Then you could even have cool fluff, like some special HQs being cowardly\/strategic and able to reject a challenge, or Company Champions being uniquely able to take the challenge for their HQ, etc. \u00a0But it&#8217;s pretty dumb and not even remotely fluffy for a Sergeant to be able to enter a challenge with a Demon Prince, locking up all of the latter&#8217;s killing ability, potentially while the Marines&#8217; weak ass HQ pummels any squad with the Prince. \u00a0The Demon Prince should be all &#8220;DA FUQ?&#8221; and swat that guy out of the way before cleaving into the squad or HQ. \u00a0Games Workshop! \u00a0My email address is tjkopena@gmail.com. \u00a0You get a good draft going of 7e, you send it to me and I&#8217;ll fix it up real good. \u00a0For free even.<\/p>\n<p>More photos are in the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/tjkopena\/sets\/72157635932747295\/\">Flickr gallery<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_1261\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6330.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1261\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-1261\" alt=\"Hey guys!  Let's play!  Guys?  Guys!!!\" src=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6330-300x225.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6330-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6330-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/09\/IMG_6330.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-1261\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hey guys! Let&#8217;s play! Guys? Guys!!!<\/p><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Last night I made it out for Thursday 40k at Redcap&#8217;s. \u00a0One thing that blew me away immediately was the ~12 people there for 40k (and a little Warmachine)! \u00a0Quite a change from years past. \u00a0It was particularly awesome to have a solid PAGE crew on hand: Lovell, Tom, Buford, James, and myself were all &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/2013\/09\/40k-1500pts-versus-chaos-marines\/\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[409],"tags":[272,50,17,274,45,24],"class_list":["post-1258","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-battle-reports","tag-40k","tag-chaos-marines","tag-kingbreakers","tag-miniatures","tag-redcaps","tag-space-marines"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1258","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1258"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1258\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1278,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1258\/revisions\/1278"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1258"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1258"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rocketshipgames.com\/blogs\/tjkopena\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1258"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}